Ep.48 – The Truth About Feral Cats: Why TNR Is the Only Solution

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Before I introduce you to today’s very special guest, I want to share five important pieces of information about the feral cat population here in the United States, which I hope will help add some very critical context for why we felt very strongly about doing this episode. An estimated 70 to 80 percent of feral cats don’t survive their first year of life. This is because they’re hit by cars, taken by predators, or simply fail to thrive due to disease, parasites, and lack of nutrition. To add to that, 50% of cats euthanized in our shelters are under the age of six months. Second. One unspayed female cat and her offspring can lead to literally thousands of cats in just a few years. Not because cats are a problem, but because nature built them to reproduce quickly when survival is uncertain. While indoor cats often live 15 years or more, feral cats typically survive only two to five years, facing constant stress, injury, and untreated illness. Fourth, most feral cats are quietly suffering from infection, dental disease, parasites, and chronic pain. Yet cats are experts at hiding this. Fifth, did you know that feral cats aren’t wild animals? They are descendants of abandoned and unspayed pets. So to sum this up, when we talk about feral cats, we’re not talking about some kind of nuisance. We’re talking about a quiet, ongoing animal welfare crisis that most people will never see. So welcome to Pause, Reflect, and Heal, uh, where we basically are going to talk to one of the, I would think, the premier experts in this world, my my friend Stacey LeBaron, uh, who she’s dedicated uh much of her life to animal welfare uh situations, community and feral cats. And she’s also known as the founder and host of the Community Cats Podcast, a weekly educational show that features conversation with national and international experts on cat overpopulation, TNR behavior, welfare-related topics, and more. Stacy, uh tell us a little bit more about yourself, if you can.

SPEAKER_01: 2:20

Wow. Well, thank you so much for the in introduction. And I’m just thrilled to be here and able to share with your community what uh community cats are, what Trap New to Return is. Uh, I ran an organization in uh Newburyport, Massachusetts, for about 16 years, assisting over 150,000 cats. And we really figured out how to stop the crazy cat overpopulation situation that we’re faced with in this country today, uh, all around the country. You just described it with these cats and kittens that are outdoors and they don’t have the support that they need. And this is um, this is my passion. I am all about how to turn your passion for cats into action. That’s what I’m all about. And I’m happy to share with your listeners today a little bit more about, you know, why are we faced with this real challenge of overpopulation of cats and how can we help them in in your own backyard?

SPEAKER_00: 3:15

That’s wonderful. I want to remind our listeners that you can follow us on our YouTube channel at Dr. Randy Petvet, also Instagram. Uh, and also if you want to send questions about this podcast or anything you’re we bring up today, you can uh email me at askme at drandypetvet.com. So, Stacy, let’s get started. I think the first thing you and I had talked about was cats as communicators, uh, as connectors, and and obviously communicating that connection to us. Uh, I like to refer to it as the Mingle Project because uh that’s a friend of mine who does a uh a radio show, Michael Smirkanish, and he uh mentions this all the time. So tell us a little bit about how that works.

SPEAKER_01: 3:56

Yeah, our cats are connectors in the community. So so many people, there was a story actually from COVID era where many people ended up working remotely. And there was a gentleman who’s a lawyer, and he ended up working out of his house. And you know, he was all alone and really feeling that period of isolation that many of us felt in COVID when we were all shut in. And, you know, on his porch, a couple cats came up on his porch, and he’s like, Oh, I love cats. Look at them, isn’t this great? And so he got to know the cats and started feeding the cats, and then he’s like, Well, you know, who owns you? Who are these cats? And so then he put a paper collar on the cat, and it turned out that cat was being fed, one of those cats was being fed by six different people in the neighborhood. And so here they were so I, you know, isolated. All of these families in this neighborhood were isolated, but they came together and they got this colony of about eight cats. They trapped them, they got them all spayed and neutered. Um, so they were able to get them the veterinary assistance, and they were very, very persevering in this challenge, but they became friends. And so they started having cookouts together and they started supporting each other. So, you know, the days of borrowing half a cup of sugar are gone because Amazon can deliver it in two hours. But now we are becoming neighborly friends through our cats in the community. They don’t join Facebook or whatever, they’re the ones that are helping reconnect us as a neighbor to neighbor, um, which is something that we’ve lost a lot, I think, in the last 30 years. We’re not in touch with our neighbors.

SPEAKER_00: 5:33

Unbelievable. And I love that because, you know, I think about that they uh basically aren’t political or cultural. Uh they engage us without ego. Uh they show compassion when vulnerability overload is there. So for many people, it’s easier to care out loud about a cat than themselves. So cats give people purpose and belonging. And I love it because for our seniors, it’s like you said, a reason to go outside, a reason to be seen, a reason to be needed. So this sense of purpose really, you know, ripples throughout the community.

SPEAKER_01: 6:04

Yeah, yeah. And it’s amazing what people will do to feed outdoor cats and to take care of them and to ensure that they have shelter. So many of these outdoor cats have multiple names and they have multiple shelters, multiple people taking care of them. Um and it’s um just really important to these folks to be able to go out and see those cats. And that’s the hardest part of taking care of a community cat colony is what happens if you don’t see that cat on a regular basis. We all like to have control. And the thing that cats teach us is that we’re there to serve them. You know, they’re not serving us, and so it’s very hard for us to let them live the life that they want to live out there, and that that can be a great challenge for folks.

SPEAKER_00: 6:52

I’m Dr. Randy Aronson. I’m here with Stacey LeBaron from the Community Cats Podcast, and we are talking about a lot of very community-related issues and our our cats. Stacy, let’s move into TNR. Uh, let’s I’m gonna have you explain what TNR is, uh, why, uh, some of the toolkits a little bit, and we’ll go into it from there.

SPEAKER_01: 7:14

Sure. So Trap New to Return, and I’m gonna share a story about how I got started in Newbury Port. Newbury Port, Massachusetts. We have to go way back to 1990, and there were about 35 cats living in a dumpster behind a restaurant in Newbury Port. We had about 15 restaurants along the waterfront. And um, an organization came, they trapped the 35 cats behind the dumpster because the area felt that they were a nuisance and they were injured and they needed assistance. Organization came, they trapped the cats, removed them, and euthanized them. Two years later, in 1992, another 35 cats were living in that dumpster. So the city contacted that same organization to come and trap those cats, and that organization said, I’m sorry, we’re not gonna come because it didn’t work, right? It’s you know, you gotta figure out something else. And at that point in time, there were about uh five concerned citizens that were feeding the cats down there, and the catty cats had runny goopy eyes and they were limping, and you know, it it it was impacting the tourists’ um uh visit, and it’s a tourist community. And so our first number was the Chamber of Commerce’s phone number, and it became a business-oriented solution that we would uh go in and spay new to the cats that were down on the waterfront and establish 14 feeding stations for those cats. So we had dedicated volunteers who fed the cats twice a day, started in 1992, um, in June of 1992 was the first official start of the program. We had some local veterinarians donate the first 20 to 25 surgeries, spay neuter surgeries. We just learned about pediatric spay neuter, and so they were actually very excited to spay neuter kittens at a very young age at that point in time, too. So we’ve always knew or thought of uh two pounds as being the the age and the time the size of the kittens to spay or neuter. And um we trapped in about a two-year period over 300 cats and kittens in that region. By 2008, fast forward, all of those cats had since um either been adopted out or had passed away, um, and all 14 feeding stations were closed in Newbury Port, and we had no more managed colonies. Um and so trap knew to return in a managed way, and every cat had a name. We had one person who fed at all 14 feeding stations on Sunday morning, and they all got sardines and roasted chicken, and they had it was basically you know a holiday every Sunday for them. That was her church, was going and visiting the 14 feeding stations and taking care of those cats. Um, but it was really a testament that the community had a continued support to ensure that you know any cat that was dropped off or abandoned was rescued and put into an adoption pathway. Uh, and you know, these cats were able to live out the life that they wanted to, and eventually, you know, the the group aged out. T trap, neuter, return does work. So we’re trapping the cats. We get them spayed or neutered, vaccinated against rabies, and do a little ear tip, a little slice on the ear for the case.

SPEAKER_00: 10:24

Yeah, I want to I want you to mention that because a lot of people don’t know about that piece, and I think it’s very important.

SPEAKER_01: 10:29

Yeah. And if you’re in California on the West Coast, you tip on the right ear. So tip on the right ear. And if you’re um on the on the east coast in the central part of the country, you tip on the left ear. So it’s just a little flat cut that will always identify the cat as being a cat that has been spayed or neutered and at one point in time in their life had a baby’s vaccination.

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

Um which avoids the paper collar routine.

SPEAKER_01: 10:56

Which avoid avoids the paper collar routine. However, with that all being said, you know, there are, I think it’s something like 60% of people uh will feed cats but don’t admit that they’re actually feeding, you know, they’ll feed cats that they don’t know who owns the cat. So we’re all great feeders. We have these wonderful hearts, but I think it is important for us to know that um, you know, I if there is a friendly cat out there that we do have the opportunity to pay paper collar on, you know, find out who else is taking care of them. Because if something happens and that cat gets injured, it’s easier to pay that veterinary bill with six people paying versus just one person paying too.

SPEAKER_00: 11:35

Absolutely. And um you mentioned adoption. So uh do a number of these cats really go through the adoption process? Are you seeing that?

SPEAKER_01: 11:45

So it depends. Um I would say in an area when we first started out, I would say about 40% of the cats um and primarily kittens were pulled off the waterfront and put into an adoption pathway, um, and then the rest were returned. Uh in areas where you’ve had a lot of trap nude return done, and so it is clear that if there is an unidentified cat out in a community and it’s a clearly abandoned cat, we don’t have a desire to leave that cat out there. We will like to bring it in and put it into an adoptive home. But if your shelters aren’t full, then they’re able to assist people in need. So then therefore you really shouldn’t have these abandoned cats on the streets if your local adoption centers, you know, now have the capacity to help those cats that really do need assistance due to you know a housing situation or or or what uh have you there.

SPEAKER_00: 12:43

Yeah, I think that’s amazing. I just out of curiosity, why California one side and central and east on the other? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01: 12:51

I do not know how this all came about, honestly. It’s it’s just it’s very um I don’t I don’t know. I AlleyCat Allies uh started in 1990 here in Washington, D.C. And so they were the ones who really set this uh protocol up. So I’m not sure if somebody just decided to do something different out in California. When we first started in Newbury port, we did a V-notch, a little V-notch in the ear. So it was a V. Um, and but that was too hard to it looked like the cat had been in a fight. It didn’t really wasn’t identifying, and we would tattoo in the ear because this was before microchips, and um the tattoos would sort of bleed at times in terms of meaning the numbers would be hard to read to have their identification number. And if you have a tattoo in an ear of a cat that’s all black, you’re not gonna be able to see too much there either.

SPEAKER_00: 13:45

No. So the microchips are always is that always included into the process?

SPEAKER_01: 13:49

So microchipping is an interesting uh question. And I’d say it depends on what the the legal situation is like in your community. So if you are gonna get involved with helping community cats on a really large-scale effort, it’s really important to research the local laws around cats and how they treat cats in the area. Um in Massachusetts, where I did a lot of my work, uh we didn’t do much microchipping until we started getting into tying the microchip in with the rabies vaccination. Um they have very strict uh wounds of unknown origin protocols. And so if we can, if a cat is pulled in with a wound of unknown origin and we can trace it with the microchip to the rabies vaccine, you know, it really is life-saving for those cats. So it really depends on the uh area and the cost factor too.

SPEAKER_00: 14:41

Right. So to summarize, uh, TNR really is the only proven way to reduce the spheral cat population humanely. And uh, you know, people need to know that, like you said, removing killing cats doesn’t solve the problem. It just creates this vacuum. Uh so I think TNR definitely breaks the cycle. Um also um, you know, I think the the stories are amazing, and I that’s why I love talking to you because you have all of this this stuff to to back this up, especially your stories, which are great. Thank you for sharing that. So I’m here, um Dr. Randy Aronson, again, integrated veterinarian. This is Pause Reflect and Heal. And I’m here with Stacey LeBaron from the Community Cats podcast. Um, we want to remind you that our listeners and viewers can subscribe to our YouTube channel at Dr. Randy PetFet and Instagram and social media, and ask me at Dr. Randy PetFed if you have any questions. We uh I think you and I had decided we were going to go into this third part, which is veterinary care. Um so um, you know, veterinarians obviously are a key to this program and a key to the health of these animals. Maybe you can talk a little bit about uh how that’s worked for you in the past.

SPEAKER_01: 15:50

Obviously, with trap neuter return, you can’t do much if you don’t have that uh uh N in the middle of it, you know, the capability of getting many cats spayed or neutered. And it’s an incredible challenge in the field at this point in time. I get calls probably weekly from folks that are trying to manage uh colonies of cats and they just don’t have enough access to spay neuter capacity. Um so we do have a shortage situation for cats, and it’s cats are great at repopulating. They can have three and four litters a year, and with the understanding that you know half that population doesn’t make it to six months, but it’s still very capable of repopulating at a very high rate. And so our veterinary programs need to really look at how we’re treating cats in the veterinary space, maybe a little bit differently than we do dogs, really stressing on the ability to do a lot of spay neuter surgeries, maybe take a clinic with a half a day and do some high-quality, high-volume spay neuter techniques or working with some uh uh efficiency systems, getting the newer vets on board with the smaller incisions, um, and and really ensuring that we’re getting our kittens fixed by five rather than six months, preventing the oops litters. Um But I also totally understand and respect that the veterinary profession has a lot of challenges going on right now. Um, there’s a lot of overwork, overwhelm, a lot of just um societal pressure and and energy. And maybe you see that too, I would assume that you see and hear about these challenges. So I feel like we need to collaboratively work together to see how we can be supportive of the business as well as the cats that are in the community and not be isolating, but try and be collaborative.

SPEAKER_00: 17:44

Yeah, I think one of the uh, like you mentioned, I think one of the big hurdles in our world is that corporate veterinary medicine has taken over. And a lot of these corporations are not as approachable as independent veterinarians like myself, uh, which I think can can really hurt communities a lot of times if that doesn’t happen. Uh here in Tucson, we actually started uh the Tucson Independent Veterinary Association. So we have a group of veterinarians who we all know are independent uh and are much more able to make decisions on our own versus going higher up. You know, because one of the things that people don’t know, and you’ve told me this, is you know, the biggest disease in cats is overpopulation. Um, you know, it’s not a lot of the other things that we would think about. So uh really important. Um I love the fact that you know, we that we as veterinarians get involved in rabies vaccines, um, that these vaccines are, you know, barriers between these cats and the wildlife. I mean, we do have rabies here in in Arizona, and uh it’s it’s a concern, obviously. So uh some of us are are busy doing uh vaccine titers, which we can mention that, you know, which is a way to look at vaccination status of animals. And often the really great thing about that is once a cat is vaccinated for rabies, often that protection will last quite a long time, which we didn’t know. I mean, until we started really looking at these things, it really makes a big difference. So um I love the fact. The other thing that I think I had mentioned to you, and you kind of corrected me a little bit, was on the, you know, the outdoor cat, home cat, you know, connection, like, you know, getting to uh, you know, like let’s say a window or something like that or whatever. Talk a little bit about that, because I think that’s a misnomer for some people. It was for me actually.

SPEAKER_01: 19:27

So um I think we’re talking about where an outdoor cat may come up to your window. And and ironically, this just happened with my daughter uh last night. She’s moved into a brand new apartment, and the you know, the local neighborhood cat was coming and checking out her main coon cat through the screen window of her slider, and it’s ironic because we were just having this conversation together. And so people are very worried about you know, an indoor cat sort of intermingling with the with an outdoor cat. Um, and really, in order to spread disease, there has to be really significant. Contact in most disease is spread through mating from an unspayed female, unneutered male, and unneutered male fighting. And so as long as you have a population of cats, and there’s been some studies done with feline leukemia in a sterilized population, the rate of the spread of the disease is quite minimal in comparison to a population that is not spade or neutered and they’re overpopulating. And it’s going from the queen to the kitten, is where the disease pass is happening. So that’s where that whole, you know, our biggest worries are the overpopulation. So we have quite a few supporters who are big fans of feline leukemia education about the disease and understanding how to manage that in cats that are positive, but then also supporting our spay neuter efforts. And so you, if you see a community cat out in your neighborhood, um, and and most many of them are very shy, but then there are also friendly ones who tend to be like the cat that’s owned by everyone, which it was what turned out to be this cat. My my son-in-law texted the the neighbors and they said, Oh, yeah, you know, uh, that’s owned by so and so down the street. But we let them all, we let them in the house all the time. Like they’re like all the whole, you know. So he’s just testing out, you know, what the neighborhood is. So, you know, it it’s be careful and be smart. Don’t like let the whole neighborhood of cats into your house, but also um, you know, do those things like the paper collar, the connector, so you’re finding out more about, you know, who is this cat in the neighborhood that we’re dealing with and that we see. But don’t be really um, you know, fleas are an issue. I mean, ticks are an issue and those kinds of things. Those are things that can spread pretty easily. Um, so there aren’t things that it’s like it’s not like don’t be worried about it, but also just sort of try and keep it in a bit of perspective and understanding that, you know, in general, the the big issues are you’re you’re pretty safe.

SPEAKER_00: 21:54

Right, right. And I love the fact again that we just go back to the fact that the biggest disease is overpopulation, which you alluded to and it makes perfectly good sense. Well, I think that’s that’s great. I think I don’t think I have much to share about the veterinary side unless you had anything else to ask me.

SPEAKER_01: 22:08

Uh no, I mean I’m just always curious that I think that the diseases we hear about in uh in our space, we talk a lot about FIP, feline leukemia, and FIV. FIV, feline leukemia, and FIP. And I will say um if you do have a cat with any of those conditions, take your time to understand the um the diseases. Because I know with feline leukemia and FIP a lot has changed over the years in terms of how to treat a cat with FIP and how to understand the type of feline leukemia a cat would have. There’s progressive, there’s regressive, there’s so it’s the d the the diagnostic situation for these cats is changing every year. And the studies are increasing incredibly. So if if one person says something, I I don’t think anyone should be ashamed of saying I’d like to get another opinion. That’s my thought.

SPEAKER_00: 23:10

No, I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. And I’ll mention that on my end, um we we often talk to a lot of the community people about just improving diet and maybe even looking at some simple supplements that can be put in the food that’s not going to avoid, you know, the cats aren’t going to avoid their diet. Uh, but just improving the diet, getting them off of some of these very, very highly processed kibbles to a little bit better kibble. Uh, or if even if we’re lucky enough to get into like the freeze-dried, you know, raw realm, uh, this really boosts these cats’ immune systems. This really gives them a lot more to go on. The protein levels are so much better for them. It really makes a huge difference. So um it was really interesting. I got called in uh at one time to one of the local shelters, and they were having a really bad problem with a number of the viral organisms and cats. And I actually shared with them a um a mushroom supplement that was very inexpensive that could be put in their food that boosts their immune system naturally through shiitake and Rishi and some of these other Chinese mushrooms. And it really helped their population tremendously because all of a sudden we were getting this immune boost without looking at expensive medicines and whatnot. So there are definitely ways that that we can help in that respect.

SPEAKER_01: 24:26

Yeah, that’s fantastic. Um and I and I’ll ask you one follow-up too is I do get questions from people asking, you know, here’s a cat, I have a really hard time touching the cat. How when do I make a determination that this cat, you know, needs to be brought into the vet? I mean, there’s runny goopy eyes, and again, you there’s some ideas there that you’re like saying maybe some supportive care could help clear up some of the scenarios. Sure. You know, obviously cat that’s been hit by car and dragging a leg, that cat needs to come into the vet. But, you know, are there things like in the wintertime or you know, that we can pretty confidently utilize to help support our cats?

SPEAKER_00: 25:10

Well, I think, you know, when you speak wintertime, obviously any protection we can give them uh on where like their food bowls aren’t sitting out in the snow and open to the, you know, the environment if possible. And um and you know, I again I I go back to food as the foundation for so much of this, that the better the food product, the better off we are. But I’m a huge fan, like if you had your home cat, which really translates a lot into what we’re talking about, making sure they’re getting some omega-3s in their diet, whether it’s the sardines that you mentioned or even like a fish oil capsule that’s pinpricked or put on their food. Most cats love fish type flavors, so they’ll go for that. Um, this immune uh stimulation, I use a product called MRM, Maximum Recovery Uh Matrix, which is made by Ohm Mushrooms. There are a number of companies out there that produce produce these, but it’s really very immune stimulating and very natural, and it doesn’t have a terrible taste, so you can actually add it to their food and really help in that respect. But I think you’re absolutely right. I mean, it’s it’s really sometimes a real call to decide whether uh this cat really needs to get veterinary care or not. Obviously, like you said, the limping, the obvious limping situation, the obviously, you know, goopy eyes, runny nose, uh, the the ones that really look cachexic or weight loss, you know, that are not eating, those are obviously obvious are priorities to say the least.

SPEAKER_01: 26:30

Yeah. And if you see a cat like doing this a lot, I find that that’s always a sign that they’ve got some dental issues going on.

SPEAKER_00: 26:38

No question. Resorptive lesions, stomatitis, these are things that cats get and they hide well, but that is definitely uh a tip-off to them having that problem. So that thank you for mentioning that. That’s a great, that’s a great, that’s a great mention also. Um so lastly, uh, let’s talk a little bit about your not-for-profit work. I I’d love to know more. I think our listeners would love to know more. Talk about the highlights and and the organizations and and mention your podcast. Tell us about that, please.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

Yeah, sure thing. So I I love being on nonprofit boards. I’m on about six different organizations. Um my pride and joy always is the Merrimack River Feline Rescue Society that I started with back in 1994. Um, and I continue on their board of directors as their treasurer today. And um, you know, just I adopted out my first feline leukemia positive cat through them. Um, we started a mobile spay neuter clinic called the Cat Mobile. And so it is really my my dream organization, and it’s been the place where I’ve been able to try a lot of a lot of uh, you know, really great progressive programs to to be able to do what we do. I’m also the director of strategy um and board member, treasurer with United Spay Alliance, and which has helped to spread the word uh with regards to our spay neuter challenges for cats and for dogs all across the country and around the world. Um and we are big proponents of the feline fix by five campaign and really trying to help uh get rid of the what we call spay neuter deserts, where there’s just not enough access to care and trying to help facilitate some out-of-the-box solutions of maybe we just drive in for a weekend, we do 500 cats, and then we drive away. But at least there’s you know some pulse work there trying to because there are just so many challenges in the veterinary space. Um, I also am the president of Positive Pantry, which serves uh pet food to families in need in the state of Vermont and Massachusetts, and we partner with the Vermont Food Bank here, and then in Massachusetts, we partner with a lot of smaller organizations and cover the whole state. We’re sort of like a dating service, getting food to the f the smaller food shelves. Um, because we really want we don’t want families to have to give up their pets because they can’t afford the pet food, as well as um we just want to ensure that you know no family is is having to like feed their own cats like macaroni and cheese. I had a situation with a hoarding situation with the 82 cats, and the gentleman was feeding macaroni and cheese to the cats because that’s all he could get at the food pantry. Um and so it’s like, no, let’s get them some pet food, and we we then create a bond and we work with folks to get, you know, and he’s like, I just didn’t know who to go to. Of course. You know, and and it’s it’s really unfortunate, you know, that people have a hard time finding resources. We think everybody knows about us and what we do, but really nobody knows what we do. Um and so we just have to uh reach out and and do that. Um and I and we have our um I’m part of a nonprofit Community Cat Champions, which is part of a two vet clinics that I actually am a part owner of, Community Cat Clinic, which is trying to rethink what cat clinics look like in an environment in Atlanta. And then I have the Com Community Cats podcast, which is 600 plus episodes all about cats. We’ve been doing this since 2016. We have our 10-year anniversary in June. Um, and that’s the place to turn your passion for cats into action. The reason I started the podcast was they did a mentoring program, and we helped 80 uh groups develop their Trap New to Return programs, but I had 400 groups on my wait list. And so there was a huge demand, and um and at the time I couldn’t continue the mentoring program, but I could do a podcast. So I was like, well, at least they can hear about what other people are doing, and then maybe they can start something. So I now teach a course at the University of uh Pacific College, Bernard College. We have a uh community cat certification uh management course there. Um, and we’re really trying to up the level, you know, we’re trying to up the level of TNR and community cat program management. And then, you know, and I want, I want you, Randy, to become a community cat certified veterinarian. Like we have fear-free. I would love to see community cat certification so that then you’re a veterinarian that’s knows what to do with a cat in a trap and is happy to receive a cat in the trap. And so there’s my vision of what the world’s gonna look like is we’re gonna have all these veterinarians that are really happy to um and able, not not even happy, but able financially, business-wise, able to offer the services that are needed so desperately for cats in their own communities.

SPEAKER_00: 31:24

Yeah. Oh my do you sleep?

unknown: 31:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:28

Do you? I mean, we’re all passionate people, so we are.

SPEAKER_00: 31:32

We are. It keeps us uh quite busy. But um, this for me has been so educational and so wonderful. And um, tell our listeners how they can find you. Uh, where where do they find you?

SPEAKER_01: 31:44

Yeah, the best place to go is to uh the communitycatspodcast.com. Um, and that you can find us on Facebook and Instagram, all at Community Cats Podcasts, but just do the old searchy thing and you’ll find us out there. And we have 30 plus online educational programs in addition to the weekly podcast. Um, we’re here to provide whatever you need in order to help those cats in your community.

SPEAKER_00: 32:11

Well, you know um from doing this that whatever I can do to help, um I’m here for you too. I mean, you obviously made incredible inroads in all these areas, probably so much more than I could even imagine. But thank you for all your passion for what you do for our cats and our communities because it’s so, so important. And also uh subscribe to the Community Cats podcast, subscribe to Dr. Randy PetFett, uh, the Pause, Reflect, and Heal podcast, because this is where this information is, and we would love to have you and helps us reach even more people and also Instagram and social media and all of that stuff is very, very important. So uh, you know, and questions, again, ask me at Dr. Randy PetFett. I’ll I’ll definitely get if they’re questions specifically for Stacy and you don’t get them to her, I will make sure that she she has them. So uh I really appreciate all of you listening today. Stacy, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate having you. Having an expert like this is just unbelievable. It it really uh makes me feel good that we’re really doing our thing for our cat population.

SPEAKER_01: 33:12

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And um I just I just appreciate you giving me the time to chat with you today.

SPEAKER_00: 33:20

I think we need to work on this uh this certification situation. You know, Fear Free was able to do it. You know, we just need to bring in a couple big sponsors and we can get this done. So let that should be our our 2026 goal at this point is to work on getting this done. So again, thanks so much, Stacey LeBron, for being here. Community Cats podcast, uh Pause Reflect and Heal Podcast. Thanks for listening, guys, and we’ll uh be back next time.